Vibration Training

Posted by Sam Hall at March 22. 2010

I have read many articles (including the one found on this site)

but i was curious what you guys/gals at NZIHF, or anyone out there

thought about it?

Good for weight loss?

Increase metabolism?

Anyone had good success with them?

Sam

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Steven Gourley at March 22. 2010

http://blogcritics.org/scitech/article/the-research-behind-the-hypergravity-whole/

This might help a wee bit. I can look a bit further later. By the way, the banner in the top right of this link around 'getting ripped' is actually a pic of Dan Speirs so your previous enquiry around ideal fat loss / weight is right up his alley as you can see....

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Daniel Speirs at March 25. 2010

Yeah the only thing ripped about me these days are the seams of my trousers! Anyhow in response to your query Sam...

Vibration training - good for weight loss, increasing metabolism etc? Success with exercise doesnt come with one or two sessions it comes with repeated sessions over a period of time. For this reason it's imperative to find an exercise or variety of exercises a person enjoys (or at least doesnt dislike) enough to stick at it, and ensure they have lots of support and encouragement to do so. So if someone enjoys standing on a vibrating disc having their body wobble and they get lots of encoragement in the process then Im sure vibration training will achieve great results for people....the thing is Im not aware of many people who stick to the same thing time and time again, so for me vibration training is akin to the mass of other 'TV exercise' gimmicks that do one thing only and in a quick period of time that one thing they excell at is collecting dust in the wardrobe. My 2 cents.

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Sam Hall at March 26. 2010

Well said ol' chap

Going away to think about another question/topic to fill up the forum boards

sam

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Di Heap at May 18. 2010

Are you guys complete idiots or just too lazy to do some REAL research? - Simply linking to an outdated forum page is not going to stimulate discussion nor provide any information for readers.

Take a look closer to home - there are specific Vibration Training Studios in New Zealand - Vibra-Train brand and a few others. There are also lower force machines in gyms, fitness studios, and beauty spas.

Daniel, you are right about the as-seen-on-tv infomercial machines though. They are low force, pivotal Vibration Training machines and all the hype and promises of weight-loss, fat-loss, strength and muscle build are absolutely not true. They do have some uses though - gentle circulatory stimulation and gentle muscle relaxation particularly lower back.

Take a look at http://www.vibration-training-advice.com for lots of articles and a discussion forum where questions can be asked.

This is a good topic. It's not without controversy but the ignorance you guys are showing is totally unacceptable.

Di Heap - N.Z. Reps Registered Fitness Consultant and Vibration Training Instructor

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Daniel Speirs at May 18. 2010

I hate to be 'ignorant' of 'real' research Di so if you could direct me to some that would be great, unfortunately the majority of articles on the site you've directed me to appear to be written by yourself or the owner of 'Vibra-train', which makes them largely made up of individual opinion and selective information. There is nothing wrong with that but it is not 'real' research.

'Real' research is independant and scientific. In this scenario independant would mean; research conducted by people completely free of bias - i.e. not the owners, manufacturers or distributors of vibration training equipment, or the owners or operators of vibration training studios. Scientific in this case would mean that the research is conducted in a way where vibration training can be isolated from other factors (such as; support, guidance and encouragement from trainers, nutritional interventions, correct applications of conventional training etc) as THE singular factor responsible for better results that conventional training.

In the absence of real research and being an naive yet inquisitive person I'd settle for some sound physiological explanations - what is/are the physiological mechanisms that give vibration training the edge over conventional training (stretching - static and PNF, massge - relaxation and deep tissue, and yoga for example) for muscle relaxation, as you suggest? What is/are the physiological mechanisms that give vibration training the edge over any other low-moderate intensity aerobic activity (swimming, cycling, walking, jogging etc) for circulatory stimulation? And if conventional training has failed so many gym users as articles on the site you referred to suggest how does vibration training actually improve a persons adherance to exercise?

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Di Heap at May 20. 2010

Okay, here goes - when I was first training to work in the fitness industry (after a work background in medical pharmacy, computers and business) I heard about Vibration Training and being very skeptical (really skeptical) I spent a lot of time researching the subject and trying all the different machines on the market. This is what I quickly found out:

There are different levels to Vibration Training and Therapy and the design of the machine changes the outcome. On the most basic level, since we are specifically talking about "Training" here and not the lighter effects, the aim of a Training Platform is to replicate a large eccentric contraction. So instead of jumping off something and landing in a squat you hold a squat position and the machine comes up hard and heavy enough to replicate your landing. There's a minimum drop height that needs to be replicated for it to become training (create anabolic activity) as with all drop jumping (research from Russia was used in the drop jumping formulas). Plus there's safety factor - how many untrained people can jump off a ledge 2 metres high and land safely yet with the machines I work with that's the equivilent of what's happening, over and over. Note:The largest machine before 2004 only produced a force equal to 140kg, which for most people is like jumping off a curb.

The exact inertia formula for all this was worked out in N.Z by Lloyd Shaw (the guy who wrote most of those articles) and is called the "required force" level of the machine. At first he was told they could not be built because the steel would be torn apart if the physics were even slightly off (a few overseas companies that have tried to copy him since have found out the hard way). In 2004 the first true machines were built. They were called "High Energy Lineal" machines, so the title is self explanatory.

Here's where the lazy or uneducated get confused -

Before that time only light vibration was being used, so all they had seen was a Myotatic reflex, increased blood-flow, proprioception etc but nothing any more than a mechanical wobble board would produce. No Body Composition changes had been recorded even by NASA who had played with the technology some years earlier. It was very safe for the geriatric population but not much use to anyone else. Now, a lot of these machines are still being produced and sold as Vibration Training, aimed squarely at the type of consumer who believes all flashy marketing. They are very cheap to make with only a bit of plastic and a small motor needed so it can be big money for people dishonest enough to be involved.

Lloyd Shaw (my boss) was headhunted for Product Manager of one of the world largest companies in 2003 but he walked out because their plan the whole time was to sell Vibration Therapy as Vibration Training. He is a mortician by trade and only started his research for his own reasons. There are still a lot of those type of dodgy companies around. Most of them get people to jump up and down on the machines now, because the eccentric contraction rate is too small to work you out so people complained. Dynamic movement while on the machines does do "something" as the vibrations seem to enhance the workout but it is a very expensive way to only slightly enhance a workout.

Then - To add to the confusion there is also something called Pivotal Vibration Therapy, which again is only really a mechanical wobble board, that only rocks from side to side. They are not real training machines because the inertia level is too low. Lloyd Shaw has designed a real Pivotal Training Machine. I got to try it a few times but it's been disassembled as he has no plans to release that type yet.

As for research, it will be years before it's. 100% validated. It's like the whole fitness industry history - people doing something, finding it works, and then some academic finally decides to study exactly how it works. Think about it - how long did it take for resistance training to be validated? Academics don't create methods of training, they only study them long after the evidence from trainers and athletes is already in. And I have seen peer reviewed research that's been torn to pieces by real experts. But none of this used to stop personal trainers from getting in and testing the newer methods of training and the fitness machines that they hear of, both for themselves and their clients.

With true Vibration Training being developed right here in New Zealand that's what I did and some other Personal Trainers and Fitness Instructors I know of have done also.

I trusted my own intellect to sort out the crap from the truth and I didn't just believe what I read. Back then, over three and a half years ago, so many Fitness "Experts" were saying it couldn't possibly work but they couldn't tell me why and they always refused to even try out a session. I tried it, I tried all the different machine brands and types that I could find in New Zealand and then in Australia too. I did my own Body Composition tests and saw the changes take place, not just in my perception of my own fitness and how much I could press on the occaisional times I went to the gym (where I used to work) but in the printouts from the B.C.A. machine.

All it took was a little effort. No wonder the fitness industry is in such a bad state if trainers have stopped trying, stopped learning and discovering new methods to help their clients. It's all too easy to do a quick course, get registered, feel all fired up and excited about working with people to help them attain great fitness and health; and then to become demotivated and lazy. Your forum shows you do have some interest so - If you guys are really interested then do some research for yourselves and especially, come and try out a Real Training Machine. I'm easy to find at Vibra-Train, Auckland City and there are other studios around N.Z, Australia, U.K.

My boss tells me all the time that most of the fitness industry worldwide is lazy, unmotivated and unethical and the longer I am involved, the more I am inclined to agree with him.

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by MadeleineKyrke-Smith at May 20. 2010

I think the science world has learnt a lot from past mistakes where people “just try” before doing any research into what we are prescribing. Our clients put their trust in us and I think it only fair to know exactly what we are doing with THEIR bodies before we do it. If that opinion makes me “lazy, unmotivated and unethical” then so be it.

I am not going to pretend that I have done any research into vibration training. However, like Dan said above, if it does work and people enjoy doing it then I am sure it would be great. Again, like Dan said above, in my experience people have enjoyed variety in their training and I believe in functional training. Therefore, it is for those reasons that I have not researched vibration training, I don’t ever stand on bouncing floors! There are a number of other avenues of training that I have and will continue to research so that I am constantly learning.

Each of us can’t expect to be experts at everything and we all have our own priorities for up-skilling. I believe it is perfectly acceptable if not imperative for different trainers to practice different types of training.

So… to get back to Sam’s question, vibration training is defiantly an option to look into and research. Obviously Di has some information that you can read and a tip from me would be to look at some research that has been done, below are some links to PubMed which is a database with abstracts and links to a number of scientific articles.

Against:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386478

Mixed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20072044

For:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300027

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20145555

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20145554

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20128338

These articles mostly look at a specific component of fitness each, which again may mean that vibration training won’t suit all clients as we know peoples needs, preferences and goals vary across a huge spectrum. Obviously, at the end of the day you will need to make up your mind about what you choose to do, the second article above is a meta-analysis from Feb 2010 looking at 31 studies so might be a good place to start.

Happy reading!

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Di Heap at May 20. 2010

Hi Madeleine, Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting people necessarily replace their regular training (whatever they do) with Vibration Training. It can be the "extra" that helps give great toning and muscle build for athletes. It can be an extra to weight training and some of our customers do it after pump, step or regular weights programs, again the "icing on the cake". It's super hard when one is already fatigued but done with a careful safety program and fully supervised in the studio it's safe and effective.

For time-short moms and office workers who go for a run or bike ride at the weekends it can become the resistance component of their fitness program. There are many people who would never go to the gym so every trainer should be supporting good alternatives.

Then there's people with disabilities who wouldn't cope in a gym easily (M.S., M.D., M.E. and many more) they can do a Therapy program and they keep coming back and telling us how much better they feel - just simple muscle stimulation and increased/improved blood circulation for some, others do full on training sessions.

To add to your list of references - here's a really exciting one. It's a study done by European Institute for the study of Obesity. A controlled study that gave an unexpected result - in Obese people diet control (which all study participants had) plus Vibration Training was the best and in fact the only modality that reduced and maintained that reduction of visceral fat over a 12 month period. (Personal Training did well for the 6 month study period but once that was over the participants slipped back.) There's a short summary here (current) and a press release from last year.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=301785&Ausgabe=254044&ProduktNr=233731

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-05/eaft-svp050709.php

To Sam's question: Vibration Training is great for Fat-Loss and Muscle build, only If the client works out on High Energy Lineal Machines. Other good quality machines give some results like fitness increase. There are also the "as-seen-on-tv" pivotal therapy machines. These don't give the results that the advertisers claim, they can't - their composition wont allow it.

To all: When reading the academic studies please take careful note of the actual brand and the type of vibration machine used. The results are specific to that machine and some studies have been flawed by the researchers not even checking that the machine they were using was performing to the stated specs. Unethical marketers have attached research done on totally different machines to their model. This is just one of the reasons that personal trainers must eduacte themselves. Better research is happening - as in link above

Madeleine: Have you ever done Pilates? Do you use Kettlebells with your clients? Can you point me to solid research studies that validate these two methods of training?

As personal trainers and fitness instructors we're working to "Get N.Z. Active" and so improve the health and fitness of ALL the people in our country. There are various ways to do this and while we may each choose a Specialty or a method of training we enjoy and teach the most, it's good to become educated and familiar with other methods and to be able to prescibe them or write them into a client's program if that's the best method for them.

Again, I invite any fitness industry person to come into any Vibra-Train studio for a totally free session to at least get a feel for what this method of training is all about.

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Lloyd Shaw at May 20. 2010

When I first got involved in the fitness industry it was as an outsider just trying to help those who seemed to be unwilling to help themselves. Specifically to fight obesity. I believed most personal trainers were involved in health and fitness for the same reason and wanted to learn.

But I was wrong.

The level of self education is almost zero. With no respect for the processes that created their industry in the first place. Every single piece of equipment they use was once frowned upon by the shortsighted, uneducated and ignorant. Resistance training was laughed at, and recommended NOT to do by Doctors. Running was considered bad for your feet until the 70s when running shoes were developed. Indoor rowing was scoffed at by "purists" of the sport. Joseph Pilates died before his system was recognized ( True Pilates, not the warm-up mat system sold to housewives

.

These hurdles are forgotten by the industry and even though skepticism is healthy, ignorance of new development and history is the industries worst enemy. A good trainer knows they are still learning, every single day.

Why look at Vibration Training....

Involuntary reflexes are now being looked at as a way around those who will not voluntarily put in the sufficient effort. Real Vibration Training is a more serious form of involuntary reflex training that replicates resistance training but is just a lot safer. And a program can be designed by a trainer so that they know exactly how much effort a person has put in. Very similar to making someone move on a treadmill, or lift a given weight x amount of times. And yes it is hard work. True no exercise is an island, so it doesn't do everything ( not cardio ) , but it has the potential to change peoples perception of exercise. And considering how many people shy away from traditional exercise I think that is pretty important.

Now I understand not everyone can be an expert, but eccentric contractions, Myotatic reflexes etc... are not that complicated. And considering involuntary reflexes make up about 98% of how our body works ( anything you can not voluntarily turn on or off is involuntary ) I find the lack of general knowledge in this area is astounding. Especially from people who claim to be interested in the human body and how it works.

Research & Academics ...

Thanks to a lot of unethical marketers, incomplete machines were deliberately released to the public in a race to make some money off this idea. And researchers who had zero knowledge were suckered in. But that should not stop you ( especially those in N.Z. Australia and U.K. ) to tests real Vibration Training for yourself. Even if you do not want to utilize it, at least you will be able to speak about it with some authority. You can only but help make my industry more honest with an opinion based on experience, and I would thank you for that.

Kind regards Lloyd Shaw

Re: Vibration Training

Posted by Lloyd Shaw at May 21. 2010

This was written a few years ago, so the figures might have changed. But the sentiment and message remains the same......

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/what-can-vibration-training-do-for-the-health-industry

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